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They advertise that you can build web, IOS, and desktop applications – which is true. But the classes are not cross platform so there are desktop classes that don’t work on the web and IOS has it’s own set of classes.
So forget about creating an application that runs on web, iOS, and desktop If you just want to build for the desktop and the Mac App Store, no problem. Just web, no problem but lots of coding. Just iOS, not a problem. Any combination of those and you’ve got major issues. It is true that Desktop, Web, and iOS have different controls. But you can share the business logic amongst them. It’s not an easy decision, but is is an option that I’m running with.
Believe and you’ll see, someone said a long time ago Well, I am not that religious and I go with my former history teacher, who told us in school: “Here you have to know things, not to believe something.
And regarding my business I very much prefer knowing over believing and just hoping for the best. This brings me back to the idea of a roadmap. If FMI would not only announce what they skip, delete or no longer support, but what they perhaps plan as an alternative, I could sleep much better. With their information about what is deprecated they already have some kind of roadmap, but only a negative one.
They only tell us, what will fade away in the future. Actually, it’s more like that’s all you hear. There are and have been many things said that are encouraging. Belief is not blind. I’m not sure where you get that idea. Blind belief is not what we are talking about. If you were FMI would publish a roadmap and tell all your competitors what you were planning next?
As CEO put your job on the line and justify it to your shareholders? Would you do that now with you own business and face all the criticism from disappointed users when you change your mind or can’t make it work? How many software companies, as opposed to open source collaborations can you name that publish their internal road maps? Hope is a bad strategy. That’s not how the world works. You are in control, if you relinquish that control and hope that you will not get disappointed, you always will be disappointed.
Perhaps use your own experience as a developer over many years to work that out? There are plenty of hints from people who work closely with FMI on this list for you to take an educated guess like the rest of us. You will also find that, unsurprisingly, FMI staff tend to communicate more closely and more frequently with folk with whom they have a positive experience, they are human after all. If it’s not possible for developers to sell runtime solutions to their clients they are going to look to other DB platforms which is going to impact on FM sales overall.
As others have pointed out, people are going to be reluctant to shell out hundreds of dollars for FM Pro to run a single DB solution. I’ve a client running FileMaker Pro 6 under Windows Is FileMaker working for Apple or for Microsoft? That’s a non-sensical remark. FMI is not saying that it won’t work, just that it is not supported so you are on your own.
The same applies to your client running FM6 on Windows 7. That’s just sheer luck. Anyway, about posts within 1 day let them know about our concerns! I’m sorry but this just irks me to no end. A lot of us spend time every day of every year helping people through their learning curve and building a sense of community. In this one sentence you’ve make a number of snide judgement calls. We should be here because we care enough about the FM platform to contribute.
Your premise pigeon-holes me and I don’t care for that. You don’t know me. You have your dislikes and I have mine.
Don’t assume that the good people that are here to build that sense of community are only about drinking the Kool-Aid. Looking forward to seeing your posts helping other people out. While I am not directly impacted by the potential run-time deprecation fiasco, even I sometimes use run-times purely for convenience i.
Base Elements run-time. I also think “always connected” simply might not work for every situation, some potential customer probably has crappy internet or cell coverage. However, let’s propose a solution to the problem – and with enough community support maybe Filemaker will pursue. I see five options, would any be suitable replacements for those of you that use run-time alot?
It was hard to choose between Apple, Android, Java or any other type of developer. Java the Hutt also was an option. Commercially speaking FileMaker became just not viable. Nobody is saying that FMI is making money from runtimes. I’m not privy to their master plan. I can only assume that they are not seeing what you are seeing. So convince them. Show then your numbers. What about it became not viable? With the exception of some FM Go style issues.
I too am shocked but not a little surprised. There has to be a better model. But I’ve hung my developer’s hat on the runtime model and this issue will now preoccupy me for sometime to come. Several things immediately come to mind.
I would never expect for FileMaker to fully reveal their hand but even a motherhood type statement such as Frustration : For the longest time FileMaker has been creeping towards creating a truly wonderful tool for developers to create App like products that can be deployed like no other.
Over 20 years of development it has been always been just over the horizon for me and with FileMaker 13 the holy grail seemed in reach. This announcement makes it feels as if it has been snatched from our grasp. Undiminished Gratitude.
FileMaker has given me a second career and a wonderful ride. I have faith in the product and the people behind it and I will go down fighting to keep my solutions viable with FileMaker and feel sure this conversation is not yet over.
Coincidently signed up as a business member today so am in the process considering my next move. The beauty of pointing a user to a link and having the product on their Desktop as a usable solution has always been a great selling point but I have yet to hit on the right business model so maybe this will push me to consider the options available.
A secret is powerful when it is empty. Couldn’t agree more. I just spent 2 years developing and selling a Runtime application to health care professionals. The only reason I keep upgrading my FileMaker Pro Advanced is because of continued development of my runtime solution. I would not spend hundreds of dollars getting each new version other wise. So how is FMI not making money from Runtime????
This would have several plus points for all the customers and developers – and therefor lead to better sales for FM:. So, hey FMI, simple question? But even with SBA every former runtime product gets round about Euros more expensive – a nogo for many single user solutions – and people have to install twice FM and the solution instead of once the runtime.
And in many cases the Euro surcharge is of no benefit for the customer if he gets a closed solution. Plus from my personal standpoint of marketing I very much prefer people installing and starting from the dock something like “INtex tralala” instead of using FileMaker and then opening an “INtex tralala file”.
With this tool fileMaker developers around the world make their FileMaker solutions more quickly and with less bugs. The tool relies solely on multiple people providing their services – free of charge :. Because we believe that the FileMaker community benefits as a whole from these services. FMI – please reconsider the value of keeping runtime functionality! I think replies to this post in just a few days says a lot and I do agree with the general cohort that this is a bad move by FMI. Thankfully I have not used Runtime in all but one of my customer solutions so I personally have no issue.
I do of course hold sympathy to all those who are affected. In a way though I do “see” FMI’s roadmap ahead. Just looking at FM14 the major changes were developer oriented to make faster development, further streamlined design and a much faster WebDirect. I will stand on the last part. WebDirect is the future orientation of FMI. It is truly remarkable how WebDirect has unfolded but in my heart it still a Beta-version and I try to avoid it as much as possible.
I love paperless but sometimes its just plain necessary to print. This is just one of many issues of course. Runtime’s are an excellent solution for a disconnected app but FMI’s approach is one of a connected environment also indicated with peer-to-peer sharing in FM13, launch of WebDirect and the change in licensing. Don’t know if many noticed but FMI has changed the wording from “Database” to “Solution” thus shifting the company more towards the rapid app development world rather than just a database management software.
This of course was obvious years back now. I sincerely hope that Runtime stays for at least up to FM16 but it certainly has an expiry date. Wow – this is a hot topic! In this instance FileMaker is telling you approximately 18 months in advance. They are providing ample notice that things are changing. Bear in mind that they’re owned by Apple, which is pretty keen on secrecy. They’re not a developer tools company, so they won’t provide a roadmap like a firm that is strictly a developer tools firm.
Given the pace of change in the space they’re in I’d expect and hope that their plans are pretty fluid.
There’s a lot of change going on in the business environment around them and they need some latitude to respond. If this is going to pose a major problem for your business, then this is the wrong forum to solve it. If your business is predicated on what FileMaker does or doesn’t do then you need to have a close relationship with them.
They’re much more open than they used to be in the past. You need to speak to the FileMaker people in your country. In Germany sorry guessing here they’re pretty approachable from my experience.
They were at DotFMP which you should attend this June in Berlin a couple of years ago and more than open to chat, buy beers, have beers bought for them, and just generally be nice guys. Building a relationship with FileMaker doesn’t happen overnight. Around 15 years ago I was pretty negative and vocal about many of the things they were doing. It seemed like communications were going into a black hole, so i know what you’re experiencing.
It took some work on my part and reframing how the relationship worked. However you need to take some steps to build a positive constructive relationship with FMI. They are open to it, but it’s going to take some work and some time.
Getting in touch with them and getting to know them as people is a first step. They’d rather have you inside the tent pissing out rather than outside the tent pissing in. But bear in mind you’re dealing with a small team of people and if you’re yelling at them they probably won’t listen. If you build a business case with solid numbers they’ll be more receptive. To do otherwise is missing one of the key strategic underpinnings of running a business – ensuring your relationship with partners and suppliers.
Obviously it will happen and i prefer waiting more time and get a comforting answer that have just a rapid “acknowledgement of delivery”. Discussion is already two days old So “it is still almost night in the US” is no argument at all now. Or perhaps: “Oh, we are astonished that this announcement produces such a wave – we have to think about it again – wait for a reaction to come soon. Say what you want, but i do think this temporarily silence is more a proof that this subject is seriously taken, and thus a reflection time is necessary.
Also FMI is not a grocery with 2 employees. All take more time. And, yes, i am definitely an optimist and positive person. It’s a relatively minor point, but I would miss not having BaseElements running as a runtime when I’m developing. I use it most of the time, in a separate window or desktop. I know it doesn’t have to be used as a runtime but it’s always seemed to me the best way to use it.
I imagine many developers will feel the same – or perhaps they use it differently. I find many of your arguments a bit strange or not in accordance with the actual situation. And how should FileMaker be able to react within 1 or 2 days. They are usually very observant and following all important discussions. No problem on a Mac, but I don’t think you can do this on Windows. Why not? They have had their time thinking before calling the runtime deprecated I guess.
We live in fast, busy, modern times and two days with no reaction at all is already long in my eyes Stop the complaining and noise. Write a letter to FMI and present your challenges and concerns in a respectful manner, which I actually suggested very early in this thread. If you do not have anything constructive to contribute with, then stay off. This should be a place for asking questions, getting answers and maybe suggesting new things.
With public pressure I guess they earlier see a need to react. They have “chimed in” for smaller reasons. To be honest, I really appreciated your early recommandation to write a letter. Thank you! I would also say the a grouped letter would be more efficient. About “noise”, i, and some of us here, think differently. Sometimes noise is necessary.
And i think it is written in european D. A in some ways. One can easily unsubscribe if one don’t want to hear it anymore.
And just a curiosity : are you using Runtime feature or not? I think this topic is showing that our community is broken in two “equal” parts : whose are building runtime solution and others. Some of the latters applause FMI decision and probable deletion of its “second class” application. First are shocked. I’m sure several have been presented here. Sorry Beverly, but i didn’t see any that meet my needs.
The developer’s freedom to create Desktop standalone apps cannot be replaced by FM Go nor Webdirect, where even the preview mode is missing. I really try to be positive here but, trust me or not, it is a real chalenge!
If some here are offended by talking about facts, I excuse myself. But reality stays reality. Only one guy had a distortion field, FMI has not. I know what ranting customers are – had one just this morning on the telephone. But he was really ranting, claiming that some information was missing on our website.
He can read, he is not dumb and we are tricky cheaters. That is ranting for real – nothing I do. I am sure for many developers, the alternatives, at least those we are so far aware of, are not satisfactory.
A particular issue which I don’t think has been mentioned so far is the fact that plugins cannot be included in Go or WebDirect at least not in this context. I expect for many solutions, excluding plugins would represent a serious ‘downgrade’ as far as the end-users are concerned. OK, so the alternatives don’t work for you. It sounds like ‘runtime’ and only ‘runtime’ will work. Looks like “yes”, unless we can really discuss another bright new future.
I would suggest the people who are most affected to create a petition to be forwarded to FMI with the outcome. C Keept Runtime for at least 2 more versions until the rest of the technology catches up.
Post your link here and the interested parties can cast their vote and send the results to FMI. A comment on the plugins by the way. Ok, plugins have been developed for some time now using C but take a look at what’s out there, most of the development work is done for browsers with HTML5, PHP, etc.
I have pulled little genies out the bottle using HTML into web viewers for the WebDirect and I would be a very strong advocate if FMI provides a better alternative to add your custom code this way going forward rather than using Plugins the current way.
This is a useful argument and I appreciate all the issues, so we may see if there are alternatives not previously discussed. Sorry, that was someone else in the thread. Didn’t mean to pin you down specifically on that. I’ve been developing databases professionally for 30 years, so I’ve seen a few come and go.
I’ve seen plenty of good apps come and go too. The most common cause has been too little or no revenue stream. The market takes up what it will easily absorb then cost of sales overtakes revenue. End of game. Had Apple not been pouring resources into FM it would have died from lack of revenue a long time ago.
Let’s face it, what percentage of the market place buys or even contemplates buying a database dev tool? Successful business to business relies on both parties making a buck, so if my FM app is generating revenue for me then it stands to reason that File Maker should get their slice, after all it’s their engine.
I want to pay FM money for each and every seat. I want a partnership with File Maker. If they make money then I do. However, I find the current licensing unwieldy, to say the least. If I did not know better I would think the File Maker had a vast warehouse stacked with boxes that had to be moved. I have a problem with a user needing to run a very fat client, not to mention no rental option for less than 5 users. I still find it extremely difficult to believe that FM would simply hack off it’s developer’s small app base.
I have only been using FM for four years, but I can see they are no fools. I suspect there will be a new and not free vehicle for small app distribution and I am not surprised that there is no mention of it in the general press. Perhaps those in the Alliance know something, but that’s a closed shop and for good reason. I want real RTS and I’m more than happy to pay for it FileMaker Inc. Apple bought Claris Corporation, where the FileMaker product was one of many products, in mid-end of the ’90’s.
That is how FileMaker Inc. I don’t think Apple has put in a single penny to FileMaker Inc. It is more the other way around. Yes, but in a very limited extend. But I definitely like the idea of being able to use runtimes for several purposes. Just happend that we have been busy with may other things. I have never said that I do not understand that such a statement is worrying for companies, that have this option as a key to their business model.
In my first post I actually came with a couple of suggestions to possibly alternatives. I even wrote Dominique to pay attention to this thread, as I think some companies will have some real concerns and needs to plan for their future, if they rely their business on runtimes.
I also gave a couple of ideas to him as well. However, talk nice and be constructive if you want to move forward and try to make things happen. Just the same with your wife I was told that by a senior FM employee, and I can’t see how they can make a dollar without app royalties. However, you and I will never see the FM specific balance sheets.
But to get some more customers, small ‘apps’ are needed – runtimes among others. If somebody has a small banking tool that shows everytime when quitting the FMI logo, he or she will know FileMaker.. I had to laugh. Since you posted several times after this one. Thank you for the giggle. Other ‘alternatives’ mentioned also included other products.
Take some time to learn some of the other products. Try replicating one of your simplest files in, lets say, Xojo. Free to develop and test. Come back and talk about FileMaker after you have completed a compiled app that replicates all of the functionality of one of your simpler solutions. This is intended just a moment of perspective, its not intended to be aggressive. I just want you to stop and consider what options you are looking at.
My guess is that it will take you 6 months to a year to redevelop your app. If you finish it and get all the bugs out, you will have a great alternative to create compiled apps. If you don’t, you will have a whole new appreciation for FileMaker.
As I said, I was told by someone that should know. It may have been nonsense, but I took it at face value I have no intention of trying to defend hearsay, so, for that sake of this thread I will accept yours and Claus’s views of File Maker’s profitability. But I don’t really care if Apple propped up FM or not. That’s history and means nothing in the current context. That’s not the point I was trying to get across. It provides a graphical user interface and a set of tools for developers to create databases, design layouts, write scripts, and manage security.
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